Considering that in my Flex Fuel minivan I get 28% less MPG with E85 I need the pump price of E85 to be 28% cheaper per gallon to break even. So at a pump price of gas at $2.459 I need the pump price of E85 to be at $1.769 to break even.

Why do we push for E85, which is less efficient than gas or diesel fuel, and is around because of subsidies? And the newer fad of these "Smart" cars and the Fit. Do these things get good mileage? Yes, but not great mileage. A diesel Volkswagen Jetta gets better mileage than these mini cars that are too small for most families, and the Jetta doesn't cost that much more. Why can VW build cars like the Jetta and Passat that are useful and fuel efficient using diesel engines, but US manufacturers and the Japanese ones as well don't seem to be able to figure it out? Rather than try to make a more efficient E85 engine, why not produce an efficient diesel instead?

According to EPA estimates, many cars will see a 20-25% reduction in mpg when using E85, yet E85 typically is less than 20% cheaper that regular. Why should anyone pay more to get less? Oh, of course, if you're green, you don't mind. It's your little contribution and a small price to pay for saving the planet. As P.T. Barnum once said ...

Why do we push for E85, which is less efficient than gas or diesel fuel, and is around because of subsidies? And the newer fad of these "Smart" cars and the Fit. Do these things get good mileage? Yes, but not great mileage. A diesel Volkswagen Jetta gets better mileage than these mini cars that are too small for most families, and the Jetta doesn't cost that much more. Why can VW build cars like the Jetta and Passat that are useful and fuel efficient using diesel engines, but US manufacturers and the Japanese ones as well don't seem to be able to figure it out? Rather than try to make a more efficient E85 engine, why not produce an efficient diesel instead?

Just saying.

Must be mid east oil fans. I am paying more than 30% less for e85 than regular unleaded and getting 14%less mileage. Works for me and I am supporting American farmers rather than mideast oil sheiks. And there is more than enough corn for food AND fuel. Just check the carry over levels.

but only in the summer- it causes problems in the cold, especially below zero. For the other three seasons I mix it about 50/50 with regular there are no bad "symptoms" whatsoever, including no drop in fuel economy. But I don't buy E85 if the price is within 25 cents or so of regular.

Wow take that car to Detroit! All the other cars get like 25-30% less mileage. I'm sure they would like to copy your design. http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/Faq.do#flexfuel

"Oil's strategic status derives from its virtual monopoly over transportation fuel. ACES itself states that "it is not in the best interest of United States consumers or the United States Government to be constrained to depend solely upon petroleum resources for vehicle fuels if alcohol fuels are potentially available," and that "existing technology, in the form of flexible fuel vehicles, allows internal combustion engine cars and trucks to be produced at little or no additional cost, [.] providing a platform on which fuels can compete." The bill stipulates that "new cars sold in the United States that are equipped with an internal combustion engine should allow for fuel competition by being flexible fuel vehicles, and new diesel cars should be capable of operating on biodiesel; and such an open fuel standard would help to protect the United States economy from high and volatile oil prices and from the threats caused by global instability, terrorism, and natural disaster" I don't have a car that's "fuel flex" but I still take the time to pump gas into my car twice each time I fill up for gas. Once to put in a couple gallons of E85 and then to fill it up with reg gas. My car runs the same and any drop in efficiency is unnoticeable. If there is an increase in cost to me, it's minimal. And worth it. I'd rather support U.S. farmers and the Ethanol Industry then watch my money go to countries outside the United States. Some of which fund organizations whose sole purpose is the destruction of our country.

http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/03/15/35-mpg-why-wait-until-2020/ As for bgaarder's comment that ethanol bashers are mid east oil fans, that's not true. I'm a HUGE proponent of freeing ourselves from the shackles of oil imports. I'm dumbfounded by the fact that a main reason we import so much oil is that the oil companies find it cheaper to import it than drill for it here in the US. That's why, as prices fall, so does domestic production. I would love nothing more than to see us find ways to efficiently produce more energy, including the energy to run our vehicles, without dependence on foreign (or domestic, for that matter) oil. But E85 is not an efficient way to do it. According to price surveys from this week, E85 is running 14-21% less than regular unleaded throughout MN. If you're really getting 14% less mileage, you're doing better than most. Studies have consistently shown 18-25% lower mileage with E85. But for me, the biggest put off of E85 is the subsidies needed to get companies to produce it as well as the large quantities of fuel and water needed to produce it. I would rather run a diesel engine in my car or truck that gets 50-75% better mileage than it's gas counterpart. Diesel can be made from a variety of sources, as well as from oil. In fact, there is a very interesting new method of getting diesel fuel from algae that was developed and is being perfected right here in MN. (I believe it's through Augsburg college perhaps? There was an article in the Strib a while back.) I get 45 mpg with my diesel VW pickup, 20 mpg with my diesel Dodge dually 1 ton pickup, but only 25 mpg with a Ford Taurus. I'm also a big fan of wind and solar power as well as wave power generators. I just wish they were more efficient! So don't try to say that E85s detractors are unpatriotic or anti farmer/pro sheik. My family farms about 3500 acres here in MN and most of the vehicles they drive are diesel trucks (both Ford & Dodge). The flex fuel vehicles (minivans & cars) that are owned by several members of the family run regular unleaded most of the time because it's usually a more efficient/less expensive option. Does that mean we hate ourselves?